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26 Jan 2010 996 views
 
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photoblog image Americana: Deep South II

Americana: Deep South II

Sometimes I wonder what would happen to the United States and how different the world would be, if the South has won the American Civil War.

I have a habit of watching/listening to C-SPAN channel during breakfast (I'm a political junkie).  One morning I heard  that my Senator Saxby Chambliss (Republican, Georgia) suggested that if the South had better intelligence during the Civil War, they would have won the war and "we'd be quoting Jefferson Davis, not Lincoln now" (Jefferson Davis was the President of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, vz). I spilled the cup of breakfast tea on my pants. Way to go Senator. I thought I'm the only lunatic who thinks about things like this. Nice to know there are two of us.

Americana: Deep South II

Sometimes I wonder what would happen to the United States and how different the world would be, if the South has won the American Civil War.

I have a habit of watching/listening to C-SPAN channel during breakfast (I'm a political junkie).  One morning I heard  that my Senator Saxby Chambliss (Republican, Georgia) suggested that if the South had better intelligence during the Civil War, they would have won the war and "we'd be quoting Jefferson Davis, not Lincoln now" (Jefferson Davis was the President of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, vz). I spilled the cup of breakfast tea on my pants. Way to go Senator. I thought I'm the only lunatic who thinks about things like this. Nice to know there are two of us.

comments (34)

An amusing story and a great picture. I non-praise its tones. smile
vz-nostalgia: I non-praise you for non-praising the picture, Larry. smile
  • Santi
  • United States
  • 26 Jan 2010, 02:41
Great photo. Works really well in B&W.
vz-nostalgia: my pleasure, Santi.
  • Suzanne
  • Canada
  • 26 Jan 2010, 05:31
Interesting story and photo, Viktor. Makes me want to know more about American political history. Had a good laugh at your breakfast tea all over your pants. smile
vz-nostalgia: smile
Suezane: Makes me want to know more about American political history.
VZ: For most people in the world just knowing the fact who won the Civil War would be plenty. I bet not many would tell, because who cares? smile But I do. smile
Suzanne: Had a good laugh at your breakfast tea all over your pants.
VZ: I'm considering sending to Senator Chambliss a bill from my neighborhood dry cleaner. smile
  • zed
  • Australia
  • 26 Jan 2010, 05:55
All l hope Viktor was that the tea was COLD
vz-nostalgia: smile I may speak with a Southern drawl now, but I will never ever have an iced tea for breakfast, zed. smile
I guess Barack Obama would be picking cotton
vz-nostalgia: ...in Hawaii? smile or in Kenia? smile
  • Philine
  • Germany
  • 26 Jan 2010, 08:06
My American friends may "think about things like this"- like you- but now they " ARE CONSUMED WITH THE TERRIBLE NEWS FROM HAITI. IT TRULY IS UNVORSTELLBAR. WHY SUCH DESTRUCTION ON A PEOPLE THAT IS SO DISADVANTAGED IN THE FIRST PLACE?" I well understand the sad message of your pic and as a passionate newspaper reader I get daily informed. My compassion and sympathy!
vz-nostalgia: :
Philine: WHY SUCH DESTRUCTION ON A PEOPLE THAT IS SO DISADVANTAGED IN THE FIRST PLACE?
VZ: I think you came to the wrong place to ask this question, Ms.Philine. smile Questions like this should be addressed directly to God. I'll make sure to get it to him next time I see the guy. Might take a while though, don't hold your breath. smile
I would also ask him, how come that teh second half of the island, the Dominican Republic is doing all right in comparison to Haiti. They must be doing something right, like say, having a Seismic Standard Building Code, which requires them to put enough cement into concrete, which allows their buildings to withstand 7.2 earthquakes without much damage.
Did you know that 1% of teh population of Haiti owns 50% of country's wealth? With all the money that pours into Haiti now, I wouldn't be surprised, if this number jumps to 75%-80%. Some people will make tons of money on this disaster, say, folks who make bulding materials.
  • kimera
  • Spain
  • 26 Jan 2010, 08:37
good comp
vz-nostalgia: good comp? It's like saying I have two eyes, kimera. smile Have you ever seen a bad comp on Nostalgia? smile
  • Chris
  • England
  • 26 Jan 2010, 09:07
It's one of the great "what ifs" of all time Vik. Had the confederacy won it might be that America would have evolved as two countries instead of one.

I like your picture btw
vz-nostalgia: smile Dah. Of course, it would be two separate contries. smile My question is what would be the consequences of that for America and for the world. Maybe, one day a bright young mind in Bangalore (the Sylicone Valley of India) will do a computer modeling of that scenario. smile
Nicely ironic Viktor - seems to sum up the mind-set of a significant part of the US population!
vz-nostalgia: smile You'll be surprised to know, Tom, how many people in the South are still bitter that the Civil War was lost. smile
  • anniedog
  • United Kingdom
  • 26 Jan 2010, 10:12
I really like this image - the contrast of the pristine looking flag and the beat up old truck could stand as a metaphor for the state of the country. The dark woods in the background are rather sinister looking - the unknown always just over your shoulder.
Ingrid
vz-nostalgia: There are many metaphorical/symbolical images on Nostalgia, Ms. Ingrid. This one is no exception. I love your reading of it. smile
  • Ray
  • Thailand
  • 26 Jan 2010, 11:07
USofA folks are funny people...they seem to thing politics are in some way significant.

I believe Big Bird and Bart Simpson are quoted more often than either Lincoln or whatsisname, VZ.

Lovely image of the old Dodge, here...is it the one that was ridden by whatsisname when he was practicing for his victory parade?
vz-nostalgia: :
Ray: USofA folks are funny people... they think politics are in some way significant.
VZ: I think the opposite is funny, Ray. It is funny to hear folks bitching about politicians and politics, but to damn lazy to to take their butts off the couch and drag them to the voting booth. smile
Ray: I believe Big Bird and Bart Simpson are quoted more often than either lincoln...
VZ:It is true that most Americans know teh names of teh "American Idol" contestants than the names of their Congressman or Senator. smile
Ahhh, Viktor.... if only!
If only you and Chambliss were the only two lunatics in America! At least then you'd cancel each other out. Now, with the recent Supreme Kangaroo Court decision, giving corporations essentially equal free speech with private citizens, we now have a supermajority of corporate lunatics with both free speech AND deep pockets. Talk about a different future world... right up there with "What would the world be like now if Bush hadn't stolen the 2000 election?"
As for your image - I'm surprised the owner didn't fly a confederate flag along with our US flag, perhaps instead of the state flag. Or maybe he just didn't have one. Betcha if this were South Carolina.....
vz-nostalgia: smile confederate flags... smile don't you worry about that, Alan. There were plenty around in this part of Georgia. smile
the Supreme Court decision just blew my mind. I can't believe they did it. What concerns me the most is that teh local judges are subjects for elections, rather than appointments. That means the local justice is up for sale, as donations from the corporations will pour into candidates' pockets now.
glorious image Victor as for what if etc i doubt the world would be any different at all considering its being shaped this way over the last 100 years and probs even more, world bank,world health,world this and that, only a matter of time before they get their "new world order" my friendsmile
vz-nostalgia: Oh my. You are getting more pessimistic by the day, Tim. smile
  • kimera
  • Spain
  • 26 Jan 2010, 17:19
yes, it´s obvious... but it isn´t bad to recall it
vz-nostalgia: smile if things are obvious, what is the need to recall them, kimera? smile
  • Eliza
  • Tanzania
  • 26 Jan 2010, 19:22
my 'american half' has often wondered at this. my very 'new england' side of the family probably have too. have you seen 'gone with the wind'? this amazing epic was probably my first insight into the civil war...many years ago, was very young then smile. what would it be like i wonder!!!
vz-nostalgia: smile
Eliza: my 'american half' has often wondered at this.
VZ: That means you are a half-lunatic than me, Ms. Eliza. smile
Eliza: have you seen 'gone with the wind'?
VZ: smile You must be kidding, Ms. Eliza. Every Atlantan read the book and watched the movie, and I bet not once. smile The place, where Margaret Mitchell wrote the novel is righ across from our office on Peachtree Street. The house where she lived is a few blocks away (it's a Margaret Mitchell Museum now).
  • Philine
  • Germany
  • 26 Jan 2010, 19:31
"I would also ask him, how come that the second half of the island, the Dominican Republic is doing all right in comparison to Haiti." I asked the same question what has gone wrong in this part of the island! I also think that some answers to this question should be known and that now the tragedy is a chance and a challenge to change the situation to a better one... together with the exemplary help of the States and other countries worldwide. Y
You are right - my words "came to the wrong place" - there is only a slight connection with the pic! The question could be: Why is the Iraque engagement and otherwhere in the world nearer than the engagement in Haiti just in front of the house door?
vz-nostalgia: smile
Philine: Why is the Iraq engagement and otherwhere in the world nearer than the engagement in Haiti just in front of the house door?
VZ: Oh, Ms. Philine, you are so naive. Look how much money were made by Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and their friends from the military/oil industrial complex on the Iraq war. All those haliburtons, blackwaters and such got themselves immensely rich at the taxpayers expense.
Haiti? What can you squeeze from Haiti? No oil. All the wood is gone, as the Haitians were stupid enough to cut down all the forest for fuel. Look at the Google Earth map to see the drastic difference in forestation between Haiti and teh Dominican Republic.
This time, I hope maybe the American resort industry will invest some money into this impoverished country. Or maybe not. There are plenty of other islands in teh Caribbean that could offer much more than just a few good beaches.
  • aitor
  • Spain
  • 26 Jan 2010, 19:58
If the South has won the world, Lynyrd Skynyrd should be the most popular rock band of the world, surely wink

I like the tones of your b&w image.
vz-nostalgia: Hahahaha. You got it damn right, aitor. smile I might add that we all would be singing country music by now. smile
Nice story, nice shot!
vz-nostalgia: smile I wish I could say teh same about your comment, RS. smile
A really lovely B&W image. It has a lot of character and is very nicely composed. Well done!
vz-nostalgia: it has the character alright, Charles, as almost everything in the South. smile
  • blackdog
  • United Kingdom
  • 26 Jan 2010, 22:51
I like this Viktor - no surprises there I guess. Strong punchy whites agaist the darks - trees just visible giving depth to the truck and flags telling their tale.

I have a history of backing the losing side so I'd better not pass comment on your slice of history ;o)
vz-nostalgia: smile Good thing I have no history backing either side in this hemisphere, Mike. smile I guess that makes me an unbiased observer. smile
vz-nostalgia: Well, Chris' logic is not only sound, it's obvious. It wasn't teh intent of the South to conquer the North. I think they just wanted to be left alone. That's why they seceded from the Union in 1861. I need to read more on that, though. smile
Diane Arbus' Boy with teh Straw Hat? I guess the spirit of patriotism that is what links these two pictures. An overblown patriotism is a pretty interesting phenomena to observe here in the US, especially in teh right wing media: Fox News, numerous radio talk shows and such. But it's pretty evident in teh everyday life as well. I might do a series on this. smile Might call it "The Partiot Games". smile
  • Louis
  • South Africa
  • 27 Jan 2010, 06:27
A lovely picture and interesting 'what-if' thought lines.
If the south had better intelligence? - remember the war started because they didn't have better intelligence as witnessed by the believes they held smile

Yankees, Confeds, Haiti, way to go ...
vz-nostalgia: Hahahaha. An intelligent comment as always, Louis. smile
we cannot imagine patriotism like this here in Holland, with the flag.
vz-nostalgia: Really? Is it against the law to put teh flag out in Holland to show your love for the country? smile
  • Philine
  • Germany
  • 27 Jan 2010, 16:32
VZ, yes, I know, you should have noticed that my question was a critical question (and a hidden answer)! I totally agree with your statements (except the phrase "t h e Haitians (who?) were stupid enough..." )- and in this way all the comments are corresponding with your picture!
The readyness of many countries in the world to help Haiti may be one positve aspect now! In our newspaper I read an interesting essay about earth-quakes in the course of history expressing the question if this tragedy now may/will awake the mankind to more reason and to more humanity like the earthquake of Lisboa in 17775...?
And who go to the fine sandy beaches" of the Dominican Republic....believing there might be the paradise on earth? The tourism has its good side and its bad side!
vz-nostalgia: smile
Philine: my question was a critical question (and a hidden answer)...
VZ: Oooops. I'm sorry, Philine, for missing all the irony and sarcasm in your question. smile
Philine: ...except the phrase "t h e Haitians (who?) were stupid enough..."
VZ: First, about your "who".
Hai·tian (h³“sh…n, -t¶-…n) adj. 1. Of or relating to Haiti or its people or culture. --Hai·tian n. 1. A native or inhabitant of Haiti. 2. Haitian Creole.
Secondly, how would you call an action of a total deforestation, leaving your kids and your kids' kids without trees in their lives? No trees means soil errosion. Soil errosion means no food. I think "stupid" is too soft of a word for what Haitians did with their country. Though, looking globally, that is exactly what we do with our planet, suicidally polluting lakes, rivers and air.
  • Philine
  • Germany
  • 27 Jan 2010, 20:40
VZ, I meant we should never generalize: t h e Americans (VZ has another opinion than AB and so on), d i e Deutschen (not all of them were Nazi's), not all Russians were communists- I think the Haitian politicians, rich business men or..., unfortunately often also some church leaders are particularly guilty and responsible for the destruction and erosion of their country, the poor street vendor... may have been powerless and helpless, he/she couldn't prohibit that...- Oh sorry, I suppose that some Germans are especially/too sensitive in this point of pc-language!
vz-nostalgia: Sure. No doubt Haitian governments and leaders let down their people. On other hand, we know from history, ancient and modern, when people are fed up with their governments, they rise and throw them out.
Or maybe Haitians have such a bad luck, because they are among very few who speak French in this part of the world. smile
Or maybe, as a right wing Christian nut Pat Robertson said teh other day, it is because they made "a pact with the devil". smile I can't believe so many people here take this nutcase seriously. smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TE99sAbwM
  • cathy
  • United States
  • 29 Jan 2010, 14:03
what if the nazis won over freedom? what if the communists won over democracy? what if the huns won over the gauls? what if the neanderthals won over the cro magnons?
lots of what-ifs to contemplate...
vz-nostalgia: smile What if you had a cup of black coffee with no sugar this morning, instead of your usual cup with two spoons of sugar and cream? And I think you did, Ms. Cathy, because you sound a bit grumpy today. Hahahaha.
  • Amanda
  • United States
  • 29 Jan 2010, 14:30
Great photo, I really like the contrast. Also, after all this confederate talk, I just wanted to make sure we knew the bottom flag is a U.S. navy flag ;-).
vz-nostalgia: I'm impressed, Ms. Amanda. No. I'm blown away that a girl, who grew up in rural Georgia, miles away from the ocean, could recognize a navy flag. Oh my. smile
  • Amanda
  • United States
  • 29 Jan 2010, 22:00
Ya gotta get your facts straight mr. vz....i didn't grow up in ga, and at times growing up I was very close to the ocean ;-)
vz-nostalgia: I will straighten my facts, when you straighten yours, Ms. Amanda. smile
So you were growing up near the ocean. No wonder you can tell teh Navy flag, even mirrored. smile
what a scary place... deep south, although I have many good friends from down that way

he he

Great Shot by the way!!

Rob
vz-nostalgia: Hey Rob,
If you really want to hear a scary story about the South, watch a John Boorman's movie "Deliverance" (1972) with John Voight and Burt Reynolds. smile
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Particularly the lower flag - what is the ship? And what is it about this photo that represents the South?
vz-nostalgia: :
Ian: Forgive my ignorance...
VZ: You have no excuse, Ian. A professor can't afford to be ignorant. smile
Ian: I'm not sure what I'm looking at.
VZ: It must be a time for a visit to your ophthalmologist, Ian. smile There is not much going on in the picture: an old car, a couple of flags, and the forest. smile
Ian: what is the ship?
VZ: I'm as puzzled as you are, Ian. smile
Ian: And what is it about this photo that represents the South?
VZ: To understand that, you got to see and feel it for yourself, Ian. Drop by next time you are in teh US, I'll drive you through the small towns of North Georgia, or the rural towns of South Georgia. I lack teh literary talent of Margaret Mitchell to explain to you in writing about the South. smile
Excelente b/w
vz-nostalgia: Wonder, what would you say, if I kept it in color, Maqrol. smile I think I know. You'd say "excelente color". smile
Missed this little gem, VZ. Hope those pants weren't beyond reclamation...smile

Interesting can of worms: I guess the U.S. would have been even more politically insular than today: you wouldn't be in Iraq right now: could be seen to be good?

Folk would be more courteous than they are now providing y'all was of the right thinking persuasion.

Nashville would be your Capital.

Creationism would be obligatory to study & a way of life. Science: empirical but we know it's wrong...

Mister Obama...well no, really: working corn, mayhap...

Guantanamo Bay would be all of Cuba with secret gas chambers... hey, them Nazis had the right idea: rid the Planet of all them N*****s!
vz-nostalgia: That's a pretty bleak picture you drawn here, Dave, (except for Iraq). smile
You got to bear in mind, if the South had won, there would be two countries, as it wasn't in the South's plans to take over the whole country. They just wanted their independence. smile I think teh North would resemble the US of today with its strong Federal government, while the Confederacy was all about the state rights with the minimal federal role (post offices, money, army and that's about it smile). I doubt Cuba would have gas chambers. It would continue to be an American sex hole, as it became by 1950s. The place, where teh righteous leaders of the South, who preach about the family values on every corner, would go to satisfy their secret perverted desires. smile
Great photo!
Suggests many stories ...
vz-nostalgia: Tell me one of them, Enric. smile
I Love this picture.

I am an american, but live in Europe at the moment.
And this picture makes me feel closer to home.

It represents so much of our country...
I am a patriot and the American flag makes me smile everytime.
Thanks for such a beautiful picture...

this shot overwhelms me with thoughts, feelings...

love it love it love it
vz-nostalgia: well, I will trade the praises for your thoughts and feelings any time of day, Ms. Nadiuska. smile
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